Tuesday, October 12, 2010

Gungnir vs. Ryunohige vs. Rhongomiant

Actually, it's just a post about the super weapons in general.

Been seeing a lot of debate over which one is better than the other and not just limited to the Polearms themselves. Great Katana, Scythe, Great Axe, etc seem to be under scrutiny as well.

The part that's been bugging me is that some will simply dismiss one of these weapons as a waste. Don't get me wrong, some are (i.e. Claustrum...), but to simply dismiss one of them because it gets beaten in a parse under certain circumstances is just completely stupid.

People have their reasons for upgrading these things. Most of the time, it revolves around wanting to be the best they can be. Other times, it's handed to them via linkshell contribution (an Aegis or Gjallarhorn for example) because of the undeniable impact they have on the team itself.

I'm of the opinion SE designed relics to be the best weapons in the game. When Mythics were released, I formed the opinion that SE intended for them to be in the same class as relics, just in a different manner. Initially, when the Empyrean Weapons were released, I was irritated at SE's wanting to put these in the same class as Relic/Mythics and seemingly making them far easier to obtain. Obviously that last part has been debunked, so now I'm of the opinion all 3 weapons are in the same class.

Which is better?

Who knows really. There aren't enough of them out there that can actually be parsed together consistently enough to see, but I'd be willing to bet each one would win about the same number of times. While it's fun to present cases based on numbers, etc, most people presenting said cases aren't presenting numbers that are different enough to really justify it.

A good example is a BG thread debating Ryunohige vs. Gungnir (continues into page 8).

There's a lot of math on display in that thread. First, the facts outside of the obvious stats:


1. 2.5x damage proc (not a high %, probably around 5%).
2. Double Light capability.
3. Higher fSTR cap.


1. Can maintain near constant aftermath effect. (100TP Increases accuracy, 200TP Increases Attack, 300TP Occasionally attacks twice (~45%?))
2. "Augments Jump" either forces the crit on Jump or increases it's Acc.

I look at the facts there and immediately think of everything that a weapon's base damage and your level of accuracy affect. It's a lot of stuff. Gungnir's got it beat statistically in every category. Base damage is 6-7% higher. It's got a full time, built in Acc+30.

Mythic aftermath effects do not stack. While having 3 different options at your disposal based on what you're fighting is pretty handy, it takes some serious timing if you want to max your Acc potential. Even launching a Drakesbane with 190TP is going to have it coming up short in the Acc dept. against Gungnir. It's highly doubtful anyone would intentionally launch Drakesbane in the 200-299 range to get the Att+ effect, but even then, if they did, you're probably locked into some form of Acc food and the Gungnir DRG is probably wolfing down Carbonara or Yellow Curry Buns.

Having a full 3 minutes of a rather insane Double Attack rate though is where Ryunohige is going to make up a lot of ground and, in the right hands, possibly even surpass a Gungnir.

But, we're back to the facts. With the inclusion of Spirit/Soul Jump now along with Sekkanoki and Conserve TP, odds are, that Ryunohige DRG is going to waste a lot of TP trying to keep that Double Attack aftermath active. Obviously, having an atma like Eccentric Eve's active is going to mean a lot of fights START with that DA aftermath active, but it doesn't necessarily mean it will remain that way. You also have to look at timing.

Say you have a pretty standard 5 hit build starting from 0 TP and you swing every 3 seconds. In a 3 minute period of time, you will have thrown out a minimum of 60 swings. If every 5 swings is essentially a WS you can use, then you've effectively landed 12 weapon skills in a perfect world.

But the world isn't perfect.

At some point a Ryunohige DRG wanting to maintain that DA Aftermath is going to have to build up 300TP. Without Eve's atma, said DRG is looking at having to swing 12-15 times. If they're smart, use meditate and jumps (all of which the Gungnir DRG obviously has too...), then you effectively halve that number. Either way, that Gungnir DRG is going should be able to launch 2-3 more Drakesbanes in the time it took you to store that 300 TP.

Factoring a 45% Double Attack rate into the equation halves it further if it actually kicks in.

(Which is one thing Byrn seems to miss in his arguments...a Relic DRG can actually use Drakesbane too...)

So which would win? Honestly it's probably a wash.

But the point is, they aren't wasting money or time or resources by upgrading one over the other.

My biased opinion though is that Gungnir would win most of the time, but not by a lot and since both weapons essentially cost the same, I don't really give a shit.

Rhongomiant though...remains to be seen. :)

Qtipus' Information

FFXI subscriber since NA release.